BB: There’s something that we could talk about that I like a lot in the mise-en-scene, which is location scouting. I enjoy location scouting. I like that a lot. For example, GOING PLACES [LES VALSEUSES], I did a lot of location scouting because there were a lot of locations I needed to find. So I scouted five or six different counties; I looked for very specific locations because I wanted them to resemble America. Not all, but many. I went to places, for example, I scouted all of the beaches in Normandy, all of the beaches along the Belgian boarder, all of Brittany, I scouted all of that, beach by beach, to find the best beach, the house, etcetera. It’s very interesting.

INT: And do you find that when you’re doing the scouting, that that’s where some of the visual texture of your film actually happens, that’s where you discover what some of, how your film is going to look? 

BB: Yes, of course. It’s the first step. Choosing locations is one of the first steps. We’re not talking about Actors, but it’s very important to find the suburb, to know if your principle house will be used for the interior of the home, perhaps in the studio, making the connection with the house and the train that passes behind, all of that is marvelous. It takes time--but in France it’s wonderful because every time we change locations, there are good restaurants. [INT: Yes. [LAUGH].] And very good wine. It’s wonderful.

INT: I thought the choice of the house in LE BRUIT DES GLACONS [THE CLINK OF ICE] was extraordinary. That the house became a tremendously important character. [BB: Very important.] Yes. And you caught something perfect for the character in that house. It was grandiose but sterile. [BB: And hard, hard--dangerous, dangerous.] Hard, yes, and a dangerous place, of stone steps and he falls and that The house had all of these… So it both spoke of money and expense and luxury and yet it was also hard and alienating and hostile and empty. 

BB: I really like the place, the little terrace where he is, up high, when he’s all alone and the cancer arrives at the beginning. We see Dujardin [Jean Dujardin] like the captain of a ship, ready for death. With his little bottle... Yes I like it a lot. It’s beautiful scenery. This sort of scenery makes me think of Godard [Jean-Luc Godard]. It makes me think of LE MEPRIS [CONTEMPT] – of the house in LE MEPRIS. It’s gorgeous. [INT: Yes. For me, it reminded me more, as much of Antonioni [Michelangelo Antonioni] as well.] Oh yes, yes. [INT: Yeah, because Antonioni used locations--] Yes, very well, very well. [INT:--like that, incredibly powerful visual way.]

INT: Do you ever use painting as a reference for your-- 

BB: No. [INT: No?] No. I’m not very, how can I put it? I don’t have a very keen eye for visual arts. I’m more interested in music, literature and architecture and design. But painting and sculpture… well, I do like sculpture a lot. I made a film where there were monstrous sculptures we borrowed from Depardieu [Gerard Depardieu] and we put them in a scene. I really like including sculptures. [INT: Yes, I mean in MENAGE, in TENUE DE SOIREE…] In MENAGE I told my set designer that I needed lots of sculptures. So he went to Rome, to Cinecittà [Cinecitta Studios] and filled up a truck--out there those Italians have everything, it’s wonderful. And he filled up a truck with Italian sculptures. We had Greek gods, [INT: Yeah, it’s an incredible scene.] Yes, it was incredible. We filmed in a museum in Paris, Le Musée de la Poupée where there were absolutely no sculptures like that. The most exciting thing about cinema, with regard to sets, is building outdoor sets inside the studio. For example, once I built, for MERCI LA VIE, I built a field of wheat. We needed a short scene in a wheat field. And we asked around in the countryside, but the wheat had already been harvested. There was no more wheat left. So… there was a little section of the set that wasn’t being used, so I said, “Make me a little piece of wheat coming down like this-- very gently.” And we went out to find little pieces of wheat, put them on risers, and Rousselot [Phillipe Rousselot], my Director of Photography, said “Let’s use a little fog to give it some heat.” Then I asked for butterflies from my prop manager. He had a little cage. So when we were filming-- this was a long shot, since we couldn’t do a wide shot--there was a little piece of wheat. We brought in the actress, released the butterflies, and there was fog… And it was wonderful. When you watch the film, it looks like we’re in the countryside, but we’re inside a studio. This is really wonderful--we create worlds. We really do create worlds. Not just houses, and apartments, and all that-–that’s all quite easy. But making a field or a swamp, with frogs, with a girl swimming, all inside a studio? It blows your mind. It’s wonderful. [INT: Yes, but at the same time, I’m always scared that…] That it won’t look real? No, it works! You need to have a very good lighting Director. Because sets are easy to build, but really difficult to light.

INT: And costume design, is costume an essential part of character that you, you can pre-vision or is it something that simply… 

BB: No, it requires a lot of work. In my latest film, [THE CLINK OF ICE; LE BRUIT DES GLACONS] for example, I asked to get a photograph of Hemingway because I thought that with Dujardin [Jean Dujardin], we could get inspiration from a young Hemingway. Hemingway drank a lot, with this beard and all that…[INT: Yes.] We looked at photos of Hemingway and I asked my Costume Designer to find clothing from this time period: big cream-colored and white shirts, things like that. We did some very interesting work on this, which does something strange to Dujardin because he’s not dressed like we usually do nowadays. Yet he wears things that are… nice. [INT: Yes.] It’s very important. And when he came to try on his costumes, it was the same deal. He said, “Oh no, I don’t want this one. This one is nice.” Actors need to feel comfortable in their costumes. It’s really nice; it goes by quickly.

INT: And you use color, I know you know, for example, TOO BEAUTIFUL FOR YOU [TROP BELLE POUR TOI], you know, whether she’s wearing white, you know, Carole Bouquet is always wearing white or black and it becomes quite important in the story. 

BB: Yes, it is very important in TOO BEAUTIFUL FOR YOU, I remember very well. There was a story about the black dress, there was a dress for the past, a dress for the present… yes. [INT: And Evguenia in LE BRUIT DES GLACONS [THE CLINK OF ICE] wears fur, always wears animal fur…] Ah yes, the fur. [INT: Which gives her a sense of a wild creature. Was that a choice or just something that happened?] We used fur because we knew we were going to start filming in the middle of December and January so it was very cold. So when they’re there on the terrace eating next to the fire, it was 0° C. So we thought we’d give a little fur to… And for example, when they’re swimming in the swimming pool, we installed a system to heat the pool three weeks beforehand, because it was snowing! Behind the swimming pool there was snow, which we cleared before filming. That’s why the pool is steaming. The day we filmed it the sky was blue and it was sunny. The water was 28°C, so it was really nice.

INT: Music. I know that you prefer to use received music rather than music that has been specially composed. 

BB: That depends. I’ve worked with composers: I’ve worked with Georges Délerue and with Serge Gainsbourg. With Serge Gainsbourg, we worked on MENAGE. It was great since he’s such a wonderful musician. But I’m not really a fan of film musicians and cinema composers. Once I was in contact with Maurice Jarre because I wanted to make a film with him, but we didn’t have the time. I’ve often been in contact with musicians in the United States, but it was always quite difficult. For MERCI LA VIE, we wanted to work with Bob Dylan. We tried, but it was impractical. Lou Reed? Impractical. We were never even able to talk with him. So, it’s difficult. However, I made a film called CALMOS in French, which was released in the United States as FEMMES FATALES. For this film, I brought in a musician from Jazz America named Slam Stewart. He was a bassist who would sing at the same time, which was great. We had him brought in and he played in Paris with an orchestra from Paris, which we re-recorded with music written by Délerue [Georges Délerue]. So Slam Stewart played with a French jazz quartet, and then we did the recording of the symphonic orchestra. Then we had Slam Stewart listen to the mix of the two of them, and he cried. It was the first time that… He arrived in Paris and told me, “You know, I don’t know how to read music.” He had worked with Duke Ellington and people like that, he was still a great musician, and he didn’t know how to read music. So I said, “I don’t see the problem.”

INT: Was it in LES VALSEUSES where you worked with Stéphane Grapelli? 

 BB: Stéphane Grapelli? Yes. [INT: How was that?] It was very difficult because we had very little money and very little time, so we did the music over two sessions. I had to be the conductor, get up on a podium? platform? and conduct. We had to work with images so it was very difficult. But it wasn’t bad– very pretty. [INT: Normally you like to use, receive music-- classical music-– because…] I can do what I want to! [INT: You want control.] Yes, but it’s expensive as well. It costs a lot to buy licenses. It’s a Kubrick’s [Stanley Kubrick] method-- Kubrick worked like that. It let you put in very different things. You don’t always have the same music throughout the whole film, which is nice. But everything could be interesting. If I had done a film with Maurice Jarre, I would have been very happy, certainly. [INT: I worked with Maurice Jarre. I was not so impressed.] Yes? [INT: He has, this is between us, but he has a tune, an idea for a melody and when it’s a good melody, like DOCTOR ZHIVAGO or LAWRENCE OF ARABIA it’s amazing. But, in a sense, to me he’s not a deep-- he doesn’t enter into the scene, and he didn’t inhabit the scene and write from inside the scene. It was, ‘here is my tune, here is my melody, and you make that work.’ So, I was not so impressed. But. There you are. He’s dead now. So. We won’t speak badly of him.]

INT: Let’s talk a little about the life of your films after they’re finished. Do you know, in France you have a great privilege of basically having final cut. So there was never an occasion where you felt you didn’t have control of your film, completely? 

BB: No, never. [INT: What a joy, what a privilege.] Because I am the Writer. And the Writer is very protected in France. It’s more difficult for the Director alone, but when you write you’re protected. You need to write alone, that way you’re the boss. No one can cut-- no one can interfere the editing. [INT: I know, that’s a beautiful thing. That’s why every Director wants to work in France.] Yes, but we don’t have a lot of money. You guys have the means, but we don’t, so we can’t make certain films the way we want to. But it’s better to make films more cheaply at the final cut, than to have a lot of money. [INT: Do you think that the austerity, the limitation of resources is what gives French cinema its very special characteristics? Because when you don’t have millions of dollars to spend on visual effects and big stunts, you’re forced to focus more on character, on the spoken word...] It’s an old debate. I think it’s nice having the means to make movies. When you look at, for example, Marcel Carné, at that time when he made LES ENFANTS DU PARADIS [CHILDREN OF PARADISE]. He had lots of money and it was a very beautiful film. I think we could remake bigger films in France, but the international market makes it’s difficult with the French language. So we should consider ourselves lucky to be making this sort of “cinema d’auteur” with wonderful Actors and sets. So it’s not that bad. Yet it’s clear that there are many kinds of film we can’t make. The money isn’t there. Well, there’s money, but the audience isn’t there. The films have to go around the world, which is rare for a French film.

INT: In terms of the way in which your movies are sold and publicized, has that always been a happy experience for you? Have you been able to participate in the choice of poster, of publicity campaigns and images? Have you always been able to control that as well? 

BB: It’s difficult, because I’ve always had bad film releases because I had posters I didn’t like. The only time I had posters I could control was when I was a Producer. When I was the Producer for TROP BELLE POUR TOI [TOO BEAUTIFUL FOR YOU], I produced the film entirely, so I was able to choose the poster. We had a wonderful poster, and the film was very successful. I made the little publicity film– what do you call that in English? The short release film? [INT: The previews, the trailers.] Yes. So I made that as well. But it’s difficult because often the Directors don’t know… They aren’t good judges at that sort of thing. There are times when the film is released, and its posters are horrible – what a nightmare! Horrible! [INT: Horrible! Yes, I know. So for you, it was the same?] Of course. And often you… You don’t usually have big successes. They’re rare. You’ll have one, two, three of them, but if you release 15 films, you won’t have half of them to have any success. This isn’t true.

INT: Let’s just talk a little bit finally, about generalities of directing. To you, what’s, what are the best things about being a Director, and about the life of a Director? 

BB: I think that it’s a profession that allows you to have relationships, the shooting period, and vacations, marvelous, often marvelous. I go with close friends and we do things that resemble childhood. We partake in childhood activities. So it’s terribly amusing and we’re completely cut off from the world, we’re in our own world, it’s divine. It’s marvelous. It’s a great profession, but everything that’s before it, the writing, financing, all of that, it’s very difficult. Afterwards, the release of the film is very difficult. So the best moments are the shooting period and the editing process. Editing, mixing, you know its sublime. But… when I began making films, actually when I wanted to make films, filmmaking wasn’t what it is today. Today, I don’t know if I would be, if I would do it again, if I were 18 years old today, I don’t know if I’d necessarily want to be a Director. But when I began in the ‘60s [1960s], filmmaking was magical. The greatest film Directors in the world were alive, we had Brigitte Bardot, we had stars, we had… that was a fantastic side to film making. Today, it rather depends on money, grants… yes. But we make films less comfortable than before. [INT: And what are the worst--] For example, GOING PLACES, I shot that in 13 weeks. [INT: 13 weeks?] That’s a lot. [INT: Yes.] A lot. And today you’d do it in six. It’s not the same thing. It’s not the same film. It’s to say that it’s due to a tough economy. But I think that what concerns me about filmmaking, I often ask myself… I would have been extremely happy if I would have been a Writer, I think I would really be happy being a Writer. I chose film, so… So, I would love to have two lives, if I could live for 40 more years, my second life would be as a Writer. And I discovered something that I was passionate about, theatre. I’ve written two plays. It’s another form of pleasure. It’s wonderful. So that’s to say that filmmaking is not the center of my life. That is, my work is the center of my universe, but… if I had to choose between the three I would want to be a Writer.

INT: So, in a way you’ve answered this question, but I’ll ask it anyway. What are the worst things about directing? 

BB: No, I like working. There isn’t anything that I hate. I hate the meetings with the distributors, the press, all that. That’s what I don’t like. Aside from that, I like all the stages of filmmaking; sound effects, dubbing, all that I love. I love it all. Editing, mixing--mixing is fabulous! So I love all of it, but it’s also true that when I’m alone in front of my paper, writing, I’m more free.

INT: Do you ever do test screenings of your movies? Because for me that’s probably the worst moment of all. 

BB: Yes. I’ve never done one. They once asked me to do one, a film I made that was produced by Luc Besson. Luc Besson told me that we were going to do a test screening, which was a catastrophe. So, obviously I think in America, they are done a lot, not so much in France, so even better. [INT: Even better.] I don’t think it helps much. [INT: No.] Because everything that’s original, everything that’s original doesn’t sit well with the audience. Then they write negative reviews about the film and 10 years later they’re calling it a classic, so there you go. When I made BUFFET FROID, the film was released; people went to see the film and left after 10 minutes. They were reimbursed. [INT: Everyone?] No, not everyone. [INT: How many?] 30, 40 per screening. It was weird. Now it’s a cult classic. It’s on TV a lot… Had we screened for BUFFET FROID, I don’t think we’d release the film.

INT: You have as long as you like to give advice to a young—a new Director starting work in this crazy industry. What would you tell them? If your son was going into directing and you had like Polonius talking to Hamlet, how would you, what would you tell them? 

BB: It is difficult to speak to young Directors and future Directors because filmmaking has changed so much and continues to always change. The advice or my personal truths may not necessarily be valid. Me, I’m an old Director and I make films rooted in my culture and personal rhythm. But I have noticed that the younger generation doesn’t work in the same way. I think that, if I were to tell them something, it’s not to forget that a story should be told. To make a film, you don’t need to have special effects, shots, camera tricks. Big bright explosive because often they are very impressive. They’re often too much. You should have something to say, and offer something to the public…not forced. Obviously, when you make a cop or action film, that’s not a problem. But at the same time, particularly in American films, there’s often a strong sense intensity that is not just found in action films. So I think that the rule should be, that young Directors ask themselves, “Why do I want to be a Director?” It’s not to create shots, explosions, special effects. It’s not possible. It would be idiotic. There are other things. We film life, faces, men, women, children, the elderly. We show things. So why are we filmmakers? And when you can’t answer the question, you should stop or work in commercials. But I think that at this moment the best school, just to see what we should be doing, watch TV, American series [dramatic series]. Some of them are extraordinary. And so it’s easier to make a series than to make a film, because you have more time to get a story across. Exciting stories are being told in American TV series. I am a great lover of DEXTER, for example. [INT: DEXTER, yes.] DEXTER. Okay, good. I watch that, especially the first two seasons. They are fantastic! We can learn a lesson with that series because first, we see it’s a spectacular, it's very gutsy, it was very courageous. I mean some of those scenes were freighting. So I don’t have much to say to the next generation of filmmakers. But I say these things to tell future Directors simply that, don’t forget that we have something to give to the public, not just something simple. We should show the people, the Director is a mirror. We must reflect society, men and women, society, a way of life, we must question life, the way of life. And to be interested in your own country. If you’re American, you should show America. Us French, we should show France, we create caricatures of ourselves, we make fun of the country we live in. It’s easy to make fun of. I think that it’s… When young people come see me and ask, “How can I become a Director? Is it interesting to be an Assistant [Assistant Director]?” I say, “The question you should be asking is, are you contributing something to film? And what is it that you’re contributing?” If you’re not contributing something to the world of cinema, is there something you’re putting in the scale, if your not putting something on the scale, then you’re not tipping the scales of balance, it will stay the same. In general, I tell people what they can bring is writing, it’s the most precious. The rest revolves around shots. I mean there are plenty of morons who make films; I mean filmmaking is easy. On the other had, telling a story about people is truly rare. Voila, my message, my sad message. [LAUGH] [INT: [LAUGH] It’s impossible.]

INT: Well, thank you so much. [BB: Thank you for…] I think is, was… [BB: It was a pleasure for me.] What a great pleasure for me too. I could very happily talk to you all day.

INT: My name’s Jon Amiel. Today is the 15th of April, 2011. I’ve been talking to Bertrand Blier for the Directors Guild of America Visual History Program. And we have been here at the Sunset Marquis Hotel in Los Angeles, California. Thanks for listening.